Ok, so now reply to the other guy who didn't lowball you so much:
[–]ill_tonksoHertfordshire (Formerly Portsmouth) 119 points 20 hours ago
A Muslim candidate, honestly I can't say I'm surprised. We're supposed to be becoming more antisemitic as a nation, but it's generally coming from one demographic.
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[–]Punjab94 51 points 20 hours ago
Islamophobia!!!!! How dare you!!!!!!!! /s sigh
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[–]ill_tonksoHertfordshire (Formerly Portsmouth) 34 points 20 hours ago
You say that, but i bet someone will say it seriously. This is why we can't have a serious discussion on the matter. I dislike the religion itself, not people who follow the religion.
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[–]Punjab94 49 points 20 hours ago*
Muslims are normal human beings, there are good and bad just like in every religion, race etc. However Islam specifically is a danger to the values this country stands for. More so than any other major religion. The left specifically tries to protect Islam from criticism which honestly has made the situation worse, the increased ghettoisation of Muslims, Rochdale type incidents, grooming of Sikh,Hindu, White girls etc, you can say im talking shit but I have lived among immigrant communities and this is my first hand experience. Moreso than any UAF, Green or other retarded sheltered activist will ever experience.
Edit: Instead of just down voting me, provide a counter..convince me I'm wrong?
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[–]WillaemannPlymuff init mate 39 points 19 hours ago
I'm Green for the most part.
However; "freedom of religion" needs to include "freedom from religion". Islam has values that just don't coincide with Western ones.
Political Correctness has determined that we can't have a constructive discussion anymore. Because "OMG YOU RACIS'!" whenever any discussion of religion begins.
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[–]mr-strange 18 points 16 hours ago*
Islam has values that just don't coincide with Western ones.
Sort of. But you have to understand where our Western religious tolerance comes from: It's our response to centuries of bloody religious conflict. Look at how divided Northern Ireland still is to this day. The whole of Europe was like that from the Protestant reformation right up until the Enlightenment. Terrible wars wracked the continent. Whole populations were slaughtered. We invented the concept of the nation state, just to provide a framework for keeping the warring sides apart.
Eventually, religious tolerance emerged as a way of stopping the violence.
Today, the idea that religion is a personal matter is so ingrained in our thinking that it seems axiomatic. We just cannot comprehend how normal it is for Muslims to feel that the state should reflect their religious views.
Of course today, it's Islam that is riven by factional violence and slaughter. Perhaps it won't take them centuries to see the value of religious tolerance, but until they do, we would be well advised to stay out of their fight.
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[–]_ben_lowery 4 points 8 hours ago
but until they do, we would be well advised to stay out of their fight.
I agree but that does rather depend on where they are doing the fight some what.
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[–]thecritic06Aberystwyth Yorkshireman 8 points 17 hours ago
Christianity has values that conflict with Western ones too. All the stuff about stoning, selling rape victims to rapists, etc. Fundamentalism is one of the few recourses of the desperate. As conditions in Europe improved, Christian fundamentalism waned, and the same will happen with Islam. It should be our prerogative not to condemn Islam as uniquely awful (it is about as awful as all the other religions) but to condemn the socioeconomic conditions that feed into radicalism.
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[–]blastcageBedfordshite 10 points 17 hours ago
I dunno, I think that modern Christian values are pretty close to defining Western society, and I'm saying that as someone absolutely not religious. Even Richard Dawkins has said that he considers himself culturally Christian.
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[–]thecritic06Aberystwyth Yorkshireman 22 points 17 hours ago
'Modern Christian values' owe nothing to Christianity. Christians certainly don't have a monopoly on 'Don't kill each other', 'Help the needy' etc. The only way Christians can shape themselves to fit Western ethics is to disregard most of their doctrine. That's a good thing! I wish they'd disregard more of it. My point is that as life improves in the Middle East, Islam will be watered down just like Christianity is here. Let's not forget that many African countries with execution for gay people, etc. are avowedly Christian.
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[–]Torquemada1970Slurrey 5 points 12 hours ago
My point is that as life improves in the Middle East, Islam will be watered down just like Christianity is here.
I fear that we don't have the luxury of the amount of time Christianity had in order to do this.
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[–]SandCatEarlobeCheshire 3 points 8 hours ago
The same level of technology that necessitates faster adaptation also makes it possible. Ideas can spread far more rapidly than they ever have before.
There will be bloodshed, as there always is at times of extreme change, but if we can avoid casualty rates of 25-40% across the Middle East and Horn of Africa and of 75% in the worst affected states, then we will be doing better than we did in the 17th century. Through the use of modern diplomacy and the provision of food and medical aid to refugees, this should be well within our grasp.
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[–]ill_tonksoHertfordshire (Formerly Portsmouth) 3 points 17 hours ago
This. I am also Green.
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[–]KarmaUK 13 points 20 hours ago
I'm with you, there's serious problems with the religion and it's compatibility with British life, but I don't just hate Muslims.
It's personal attacks on people I'd like stopped, not valid criticisms of a faith, ideology or lifestyle.
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[–]Muminaat 1 point 14 hours ago
What are the serious problems with the religion?
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[–]bonjouratous 5 points 7 hours ago
Homophobia, treating women and men differently, forbidding apostasy or blasphemy, creationism, etc...