1) Which Garou do too, since it has mechanics for losing the wolf.
I never said otherwise. But you put the garou's risk of frenzy forward as a way to show that Garou are just as savage as, or more savage than, the Uratha. And I was pointing out that, in this, they are (mostly) the same. They both have to deal with rage. They both have to deal with frenzy. It's a moot point.
The biggest difference is that Uratha can't remain in the war form with succumbing to frenzy.
2) I do. It makes no sense for a humanoid creatures that’s losing its shit to throw away a hammer to use claws. Instead of smashing with the object in their hands. These aren’t wolves. These are WEREWOLVES. There’s still an intelligence in there above wolves.
Honestly, a war hammer I can buy. The problem I really have is when these "savage beasts who succumb to frenzy" do so while shooting uzis and dueling with katanas.
Use of a weapon implies control, focus, discipline and (at the very least) some higher thought. And I'm of the opinion that a werewolf in frenzy loses those things.
But to your point, Garou can hang out and play tennis or trim their toe nails while in Crinos form. So yeah, of course they can use weapons in Crinos. Because being in Crinos doesn't mean they are in frenzy. Other than a +1 Difficulty to resist frenzy while in Crinos, they are in almost every way no different than a big fuzzy human.
And the rules promote this. You need to take a precision sniper shot? Shift to Crinos. The bonus to your dex will be real handy. Same if you are playing racquetball.
3) You realize there’s way more savage Garou depictions and your description doesn’t fit any of those you gave?
Of course. I never said Garou were NEVER depicted as savage monsters. It's just that they often aren't.
Infact some of the WTF art came from WTA. Also I could go through and find silly, shitty or furry art of WTF, that came from WTF. It’s not hard.
Cool. Feel free to post some.
And yeah, I think you did since you kinda completely missed the point and talked down about Garou. Then when I pointed elements out you just go “Uratha do too!”
If you say a Jeep is better than a Corvette because it has four wheels, you can expect someone to mention the fact that they both have four wheels. It's not a point in the Jeep's favor.
Kinda shows you have a heavy bias that makes you ignore all the werewolf elements of Apoc.
Bias? Yes! I like WtF more. I'm not hiding a bias. I'm telling you flat out that I have one. And I explained what it is and why I have it.
I didn't come in here to shit on WtA or sell you on WtF, or even sell you on W5. And I said multiple times that I like a lot of elements of WtA. There is just one in particular that I strongly dislike, and that's the tendency to present WtA as a Saturday Morning cartoon. It just rubs me the wrong way.
NOTE, that I did said "tendency". I did not say nor intend to imply that was the only way WtA was ever portrayed in all books by all authors all the time since the beginning and ever more. So don't bother citing examples of when WtA actually got dark. I've done the reading. And anything you cite I've probably read a half dozen or more times. It's exactly that stuff I cherry-picked when looking for WtA inspiration for my own games.
But the goofy shit was there more often than I'd like. And if that stuff is cut in W5, I personally think the game will be better for it.
I understand that you disagree. And that's fine. I'm not calling your baby ugly. I'm saying my tastes differ from yours.