People dropping Jesus in AA makes me want to bolt.

This is the exact problem I have with AA, and the largest factor in why I do not consider myself a member of the fellowship. I am right there with you on so much of this criticism. "Not a religious program" my ass, have you heard the language you use? The third step prayer? Or how about how half of all meetings I've ever been to end with either the serenity prayer (written by Christian theologian Reinhold Niebuhr) and the other half close out with the lord's prayer, which is not only specific to a singular religion, it's specific to an interpretation of dogma that not all denominations of that religion share. I'll be believe it's not a religious program when it stops acting like a religious program.

But then it did. I'm not sure about your area, but there is a type of meeting that calls themselves "We Agnostics" and it is explicitly set up for people that want nothing to do with the religious overtones. You may try that.

Secondly, also dependant on your area, but you might be able to find SMART recovery meetings, Rational Recovery, Organization for Secular Sobriety etc, etc. AA's only real advantage over these other groups is that it's more widespread and better known. Whereas there's almost a guarantee of finding an AA meeting near you, regardless of where you live, the alternatives are pretty much localized to major cities for now, and even then it's a crap shoot on whether one is near you on any given night.

Lastly and this is just a bit of a personal affirmation, regardless of what Bill Wilson said on Page 174 of the 12x12, "Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant. His drunkenness and dissolution are not penalties inflicted by people in authority; they result from his personal disobedience to spiritual principles," I promise, promise, you that there are alternatives that do work for some people. The Big Book itself says that they do not have a monopoly on recovery (I'm getting some mixed signals here...) and it is absolutely true. I personally know people that got sober through intensive therapy, spiritual awakenings of their own accord as well as people who finally just decided they were done. Never, ever assume that this is the only way, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

If I seem worked up and angry about this, it's because I am. I have personally lost friends and loved ones near and dear to my heart, because they "kept coming back" and tried a 12 step approach over and over and over again and it never worked. Every single time they got a little more beaten down, believing the problem was them, when the reality was the steps weren't for them, but their sponsors, friends, fellowship kept blaming the individual when the program failed. I often wonder about those people, those people I love. I wonder if they would still be alive if someone sat down with them and said "look, this isn't working, we have to find something else, and I will work with you until you get there." It's the main reason I want to become a counselor.

When ideology is more important than a living, breathing, flesh and blood human being, right in front of you, I want nothing to do with your organization.

That having been said, if you found your recovery in the steps, in AA and in the fellowship, good for you! I'm not being sarcastic! I am elated for the peace and serenity you have found in your life. I know it doesn't come easy for people like us. All I'm saying is tone down the rhetoric. You don't know when there's a new-comer in the back of the room scared shitless of the God concept that may be driven away permanently if you're not careful. Please for my fallen friends (and for myself) be careful with your words, you do not know the power they contain.

/r/stopdrinking Thread