How can you know that this life is not the dream, recurring every time you fall asleep in that world?

If you have even a SLIGHT enjoyment of crime dramas I HIGHLY recommend checking out the show "Awake". It was sadly cancelled after the first season, but basically this detective gets in a car accident and when he wakes up his son is dead (but his wife is alive) and when he goes to sleep he wakes up and hes in a different reality where his son is alive but his wife is dead. And in both realities he has a psychologist he has to see through the police department telling him the OTHER psych is the false one and that THIS is the real world... its really interesting and I wish it had more seasons.

But, back to the point at hand. I think we do have different definitions of "real" or at least that you are using a very lose definition of real. Did you know one of the characterisitics of schizophrenia is the inability to differentiate what is real from what is fantasy? In other words its perfectly fine to believe that when you read a good book those characters become "real" for a time as long as you can still differentiate that form of "real" from reality.

But I am only writing in circles here, not out of effort to confuse but perhaps effort to understand the soup of my own thoughts.

I have done this many a time. And it doesnt bother me. Just find your thoughts interesting since I agree that characters can become "real" in the minds of their creators but I also differentiate between that form of "real" and reality. They are no more REAL than anything made up, but they can take on a sort of life of their own if they are written well enough. And to me that happens when I can picture that character in situations not written in the story with clarity. That shows that the character is well developed enough to hold up without the guidance of the author. That does not, however, mean that character is any more real than me making up a mythical creature and throwing some descriptions together and calling it "real", nor does it make it any more "real" than the various deities that have been made up over the years.

A VERY good example of this is in the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. King actually writes himself into the story (like Coheed and Cambria does with their music) and makes it a point to make it so that the main character is actually telling the story to King who then writes it and then wipes Kings memory so that he remembers only writing the story, not being told the story by the main character. Its a mind fuck but its one of the best written stories of all time. If I had to pick a fictional story to actually believe in as a religion, it would be the Dark Tower. I think it is so well written as to be the type of story that cults are built around.

When your entire moral identity is tied into a controlling religion from your earliest formative years well into adulthood, it can feel like the foundations were ripped out and you kind of have to make it all back up as you go along.

one of the biggest problems with totalistic cults.

The time for being closed-minded and limiting my knowledge is over :)

Based on this conversation I think you are 100% correct. you seem the type to enjoy studying new things and more importantly thinking in new ways.

they reply with something like 'Don't you think you should believe in God, just in case it is right?' It sounds very hypocritical, and I want to reply, 'Don't you think you should believe in Buddha and Allah and Lord Shiva the Destroyer?'

I dont think this is hypocritical at all. Its called Pascal's Wager and it has been talked about at great length in many places. I think its a VERY shitty reason to believe in god (as you said, what about the thousands of other gods...why not believe in them "just in case"). Google it, its a good subject for philosophical study.

They should be about community and tradition and a strong moral framework for making the world a better place, each according to his beliefs, without violence and warfare.

I would even hesitate to say they should provide a moral framework. Each person should be able to arrive at pretty much identical moral frameworks without any form of religion. There will always be some differences but things like "murder is wrong" should always be there, no matter who you are. And if you follow a moral guideline only because your religion says you should then its probably not a very good moral guideline....

I had to look up what Roko's Basilisk is

I learned about it recently. If you want to read about a different kind of cult (where Roko's Basilisk is from), not based on deities and such, look up Eliezer Yudowsky and his "Singularity Institute" or "Machine Intelligence Rearch Institute". Someone was talking to me about it and it is pretty much a "techno-cult". They believe in all sorts of crazy stuff, most prominently that Yudowsky is working on creating a benevolent AI that will rule the world (you could say its akin to the "god" of most religions, only it hasnt been created yet) before someone else comes along and creates an AI of similar power which will be a tyrant or destroyer (satan or his equal in other religions). He is JUST as narcissistic as Hubbard and actually reminds me a TON of what Hubbard would sound like if he was starting Scientology today and was a failed programmer rather than a pseudo-psychotherapist. Here is his auto-biography if you would like to check it out

I'm jumping all over the place with my reply here, the term I was looking for earlier is 'stream-of-consciousness', which is that I write what I am thinking at the moment with little regard for form or continuity, terribly annoying for the reader but the easiest way to write for a pseudo-armchair-philosopher :D

I do the same... I read the whole comment, then I re-read each paragraph and reply as I think. It feels more like a conversation and less like an email correspondence that way.

but key-ryst are they ever hoping the world ends so they get to go to paradise and everyone else dies a horrible death...)

Ah the doomsday cult :) and old classic. Thats what Jonestown was and we all saw how that ended....

I almost asked what "key-ryst" was till I had to sound it out to spell it.... then I felt dumb... lol

and I agree with you in that there is no point, which means that there probably are no gods and there never were, so people kinda should stop worrying and enjoy life.

HEYO!!!! 100% correct young padawan! Its not a matter of whether they do or do not exist in some other dimension which has no impact on this universe. Its a matter of whether or not it matters in the slightest. And I can't seem to come up with any valid reason it would matter if they do exist outside of our perception and since I feel I have pretty good reasons to NOT believe in them in any sort of perceivable, observable state, then I find there is NO reason to believe at all, let alone devote any aspect of my life to a deity at all.

I just find the concept of a higher reality above ours to be a nice idea and I think it would be really cool if it were true

Out of curiosity... why? What would that do for you or for humanity? Can't we be trusted to take care of ourselves? To make our own advancements? Why would it be nice to have a cosmic "parent" for lack of a better term? A "legal guardian" of the heavens couldnt give us anything we can't give ourselves.... at least thats my conclussion. I am curious what you feel would make it a nice idea?

You know, advanced aliens, ancient gods, mystical artifacts, magic, miracles... would be cool

Hmm... ancient aliens would be cool, but would also not fit the definition of a deity and would be pretty easy to explain away as being technologically advanced enough to dodge our perception till now. Ancient gods? I dont see the appeal. As I said I wouldnt find them particularly interesting or enjoyable if they did exist. mystical artifacts? Well we DO have mystical artifacts, they just dont DO anything. They are so much weight in gold or stone or wood or whatever, though they ARE cool from an anthropological stand point. Magic? Well yes... this would be VERY cool, as it could result in HUGE advances as a species if it were discovered, harnassed, and used to benefit humnaity. Miracles? Thats just a word we use to define benevolent events we cant explain. They happen all the time. And the whole point is we can't explain them which is what makes them miracles and not just "good events".

but most likely it's all hard science and random chance.

If I can make a car that flies, would it matter if it was done with magic or science? We HAVE done this with science (airplanes, hover craft, helicopters, etc) and have NOT done this with magic. So maybe if you really think about it science really IS more amazing and cooler, but we are just used to it so it doesnt seem "special" anymore. Maybe thats a sign we need to take a step back and remember how amazing our world already is and stop thinking how much cooler it would be if magic were real or if we all had superpowers (I am guilty of this too. Many a time wishing I had a super power, when compared to most of human history my car ALONE is a superpower....)

If I had the mind for it I really should find hard science and random chance to be fascinating as well, but I like fiction far too much to give it up entirely

Even Einstein said that imagination was far more important than knowledge. Never give up on the imagination as its what takes us from the "now" to the "future" even if it happens to slow to notice the change. As Calvin onces said; "day to day nothing changes but pretty soon nothing is the same" (Calvin and Hobbes)