if you have someone who would rather be the opposite sex, and you remove that want from them (somehow), I don't think that you have done anything beneficial for them and instead have just removed a part of their identity and personhood.

But how would the person have that as an identity/personhood, who never experienced it in the first place because it was never an issue?

I truly appreciate your response. And it's highlighted the trickiness of what "disorder" CAN come to mean. I mean it as a suboptimal, like my thyroid disease, not at all as "abomination"... but I can definitely see why "disorder" can be problematic to the lived lives of trans people...

I think what might be happening too is that the "trending" of gender fluidity (which i consider very different to transgenderism), has an agenda to basically destroy and deconstruct the existence of sex and gender entirely - again, of all the trans people I have spoken with, they all state that there are TWO genders and all they want is to take up a position in one of them - not deny the existence of gender per se. You see a lot of outrage from alt-right and others against this idea - because gender is a pretty clear reality and the propaganda saying it's all a construct kinda does deserve to be lampooned - but alas, I feel the trans community gets dragged in to this.

Society should be open and inclusive - I grew up in an extremely progressive area of my city where being gay and "queer" was always a cool thing... i didnt see hardly any racism or homophobia etc until i left as an adult and I guess ive lived in this inclusive bubble. But the last few years, particularly online there has been this eruption of gender debates... and a lot of the leftist approach is to cry victim status, bigotry, and to force this idea that gender doesnt exist... and I think it's not a helpful agenda to have - it's like the "otherkin" movement as well - which I think some people conflate trans people with as well - ie delusional... which pisses me off because when you talk to a trans person, they are pretty clear and it's pretty simple and most do not talk about destroying gender or that it doesnt exist.

Do you feel that this whole gender fluid "trend" harms the plight of trans people? I honestly cant help but feel that way. To me it would be like being a schizophrenia and then a bunch of teenagers experimenting with their identity decides sanity doesnt exist and all and start identifying as varying grades of schizo-affectionate and schizoid-alien etc... and demanding to be referred to as those pronouns.

These conversations are very helpful so thank you for participating!