Posted this to r/atheism but should have come here: Need to crowd source some help to decouple someone from 'Kryon'.

As I read your post let me clarify to make sure I'm getting your position in this discussion:

  • There is no objective reality.

  • To each, their own beliefs, all are equal.

  • Believe in science until it conflicts with our currently held beliefs, then suspend it as long as required, then pick it back up when needed.

The top two of these claims are claims of truth which can be tested and the last sounds like a new definition for cognitive bias.

You stated, "I feel like there is no objective physical reality since our consciousness, whatever that is, seems to always shape it to something we believe is real."

What you described is the sensation of each persons subjective reality. Subjective reality is different than objective reality. Objective reality is the true knowledge I can share with you, Fred, Wilma, Granny, and anyone else. We can all agree on things inside of objective reality. Gravity is easily demonstrate to always apply to everyone on planet Earth. Magnetism is a part of objective reality, without it being objective reality MRIs wouldn't work and we wouldn't have electricity.

Objective reality requires no beliefs. Objective reality can be shown to be true and the tools we use to describe it are science.

Subjective reality happens after objective reality. Subjective reality is each persons interpretation of objective reality filtered through the beliefs they hold. These are the things that truly separate us, not the arbitrary differences of color, gender, age, etc. beliefs separate us and cause our actions to deviate from reality.

You stated that all belief systems are equally valid, to each their own, everyone is free to adopt and discard a belief system as it suits them. I see this as not only naive but dangerous. Not all belief systems are equal. There are people who believe certain tenets of Islam that make parents believe it is a loving act to kill their daughters if they suffer the humility of rape. Who arrives at thinking that killing their child is the best course of action without a belief that deviates from reality?

There are parents who, through their belief systems, will not take a severely ill child to the doctor. Because they believe in something as fact without any evidence for it. They believe that the Holy Spirit will heal all wounds... Or ..he won't and it was all "part of Gods plan".

These are tightly held subjective beliefs that don't hold ANY merit when objectively tested. They don't comport to reality.

Now I could go on for ages highlighting the millions of decisions we make each day or detailing all the false concepts we inculcate amongst ourselves through bad beliefs: knee-jerk blessings, circumcision, nationalism, patriotism, luck.... But to what end?

I'm sure you notice the dissonance my ideas have caused you. You can feel it as the anxiety that arises when I say your ideas are loose-weave, wishful thinking, and false. These are delusions you have constructed to make yourself feel good instead of finding paths to feeling good with what is real.

Else wise, making claims that you've seen aliens and communicated with them without any available evidence can be classified no other way. Provide evidence and your delusions become objective reality. Others could share in the information, test it. If it is ONLY subjective to you (or after being influenced by Lee Carol) then it isn't reality.

You've essentially spent a long amount of time telling me that you reside in a well framed subjective reality. One that is loose-weave and allows for the valuing of science as true until it conflicts with your subjective belief system, then it must be discarded until needed again.

Sensors and machinery don't have subjective experience, they don't have a consciousness with which to subjectively experience the world. They react and act based on their function. They react to objective reality. A compass aligns with magnetic poles, an MRI sends and receives radio waves that it detects. These machines can do this with a human mind in the room or not. So when you say, "when you are testing the reality with scientific equipment, you are seeing the empirical results, which are in a sense the subjective perspective of the machine." This is wrong. There is no "sense" that the machine has experience or that it would be subjective if it had one.

Humans have the ability to be creative and think in abstract ways, this doesn't make objective reality abstract. Objective reality will remain a concrete concept waiting to be tested, discovered, and known.

Abstract thinking is just that, abstract thinking. It's helpful for many things, but not for discovering the world as it is.

/r/skeptic Thread Parent