Really, now? I thought it was because we're the "builders, innovators, and maintainers of civilization."

Well, sure men mostly did those things and still do these things as a consequence of prioritizing the interests of women or gynocentrism. Sure there are other factors that go into it, but let's not discount the impact of gynocentrism in this equation.

" I mean, if women are virtually useless besides for reproduction (now that's a lark, I'm definitely certain it's not something you'd see in all those scientific papers about the various roles women play in various societies."

Well, of course you're not going to see something so politically incorrect stated in a scientific paper. But to put it simply, without men, society will cease to function as it does today. Without women, society will continue to function; however, without artificial reproduction, society will eventually go extinct.

" BTW, what have you contributed to civilization, buddy?"

This is a common sentiment I see around here, when MGTOW talk about differences between men and women, particularly in contributions to society. I am clearly talking about men and women on a macro scale. I don't understand why it has to be so personal. It is a fact that the vast majority of scientific innovations come from men. It is a fact that the people who maintain your plumbing, your roads, and do the electrical work in your homes are men. This is what I mean when I say men are the builders, innovators, and maintainers or society. Why is this so hard to understand?

"it's only natural men would do the majority of fighting and dangerous work. Taking more risks is probably why we end up homeless more often too."

Sure, and why do you think men are like this in the first place? It goes back to men being the hunters, and women being the gatherers. Men, are the ones doing the risky business hunting for game, in the interest of women and children.

"Or maybe your ideology is incoherent and stupid, and really not fit to be considered anything even approaching "scientific?"

What's incoherent about rejecting gynocentrism and manifestations of it, such as marriage and feminism? Because at the core level, this is all MGTOW really is. Some of the statements I made in this comments thread may not even be echoed by other MGTOW, so it would be unfair to chalk that up to MGTOW. As for unscientific, what is unscientific about hypergamy and gynocentrism? Everything I stated so far is mostly factual, as far as I can see.