I'm gonna drunkenly live review this shit, friends. Have never heard of this show or the people on it.

I've been a philosopher for the last 15 years or so.

You really shouldn't be calling a show where they're either in front of a terrible green screen or a bomb shelter. This will always lead to hurt. You're also being way too nice.

Do you consider yourself an agnostic atheist?

Depending on the definition of knowledge, yes.

Oh God here we go.

If theism and atheism address belief, and gnosticism and agnosticism address knowledge...

It's obviously like getting blood from a stone to contradict this now, isn't it? I just hoped this internet bullshit hadn't spread.

Knowledge is a subset of belief.

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So what the fuck do you believe that you don't know? Aside from this cop out garbage. Why do these people literally only have this view on religious grounds? More specifically about the belief in God? It sounds fucking stupid in any other context. Wonder why?

Let me clarify...

THEN THEY INTERRUPT. Yeah this is pretty intellectually stimulating. Obviously letting the other person clarify their beliefs is for theists. If you just talk loud enough over the other person you're obviously right.

I don't care about knowledge.

I should honestly stop here. This is the fucking pinnacle of new atheism. Fucking anti-intellectual bullshit.

While it's nifty that we claim to know things...

Shut the fuck up. You are not Socrates. This is not novel. Jerking yourself off to being better than other people because you don't express any confidence in what you think does not make you better than other people.

What I mean by agnostic atheism is something you can also find at ironchariots.org

I have defined bullshit at my website fuckyou.com to mean anything that comes out of your mouth.

As an aside, how can literally anyone believe something but not know it in the same breath as "I don't believe in evolution, I accept it"????

There's a disjunction between I do not believe, and I don't know.

I'm sure this will get elaborated on in a lucid way.

I don't know is something that applies more accurately to the antitheist position.

WHY? What possible reason is there for this? I fucking hate religion so I don't know if God exists? How does this many any fucking sense?

Gnostic antitheist...would be that

GOOD NOW WE'VE INTRODUCED MORE BULLSHIT TERMS. FUCKING LOVELY.

Atheism is the rejection of theistic claims.

Good for you buddy. Way to dodge any intellectual challenge. Our interlocutor accepts this as reasonable which is really charitable.

I don't need to know something in order to believe it.

So this is either the next level of Cartesian skepticism or he doesn't think his belief is justified or true. Either way next level going on.

You need to believe something to know it. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

The non sequitur tho. Given the first sentence, shouldn't the second read belief is a subset of knowledge?

Aside: why does the other guy literally never talk?

You ever see one of those things where it's a jar on a counter and it's, like, full of gumballs and they have a contest to see who can guess to the closest number of gumballs?

Oh fuck is this going to be the next Sam Harris thought experiment?

Aside: this is six minutes in. I am way more drunk than I thought. I would have normally given up on this ages ago.

The number of gumballs is either even or odd...so what's the default position on the gumballs?

Neutral

Going to summarize: so if he doesn't think it's even, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's odd. This would be a great argument for the actual definition of agnosticism (well, not really, but by the standards of the previous 6 minutes). We only address a single problem of the dilemma at a time. Well what's the other prong with gumballs? That even and odd numbers don't exist? What the fuck?

A theist is the assertion that the number of gumballs is even. I am rejection their assertion. Atheism is the rejection of that position not the assertion that it is an odd number of gumballs.

Well what the fuck else is it? You spineless fucking coward. Either own up to what you think or shut up. Hosting a talk show that requires no positions makes you at best boring.

Are we still on the same page?

Yes sir.

NO. The caller is way too nice.

Aside: I really wish Charlie Sheen with a permanent scowl would talk.

I don't even normally put the qualifier in there. I'm an atheist.

THEN WHY DOES THE VIDEO EXIST

Okay I will criticize the caller here for something besides being too nice. I have literally no idea what the Thomas Paine part is supposed to mean.

9 mins in scowling Charlie Sheen finally talks.

The caller sounds like he's doing really clumsy Kantian transcendence or something.

How is that not a massive argument from ignorance?

BECAUSE IT'S NOT DON'T KNOW IT'S CAN'T KNOW YOU STUPID SHIT.

Charlie Sheen's lookalike eyebrows are fucking disturbing. This is going to be half the post at this rate.

By categorizing it you claim to know something about which you don't know.

CHECKMATE DEISTS THEISTS NON AGNOSTIC ATHEISTS

The caller is kind of misrepresenting Socrates too...

There is no other option. You're either a theist or an atheist.

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Gonna leave this one without comment.

If you do not actively believe in any gods, you are an atheist.

Fine, I lied. These people have just completely fucked agnosticism as its own term, huh?

You either accept the claim that the number of gumballs is even or you reject the claim. Those are the only two options.

YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY THINK THIS. EVEN IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR DUMB FUCKING THOUGHT EXPERIMENT CAN YOU THINK THIS. THE FACT THAT YOU CAN ASSERT ODD IS RIGHT THERE.

There is no withhold

OF COURSE THERE IS. WHEN IS I DON'T KNOW NOT AN ACCEPTABLE CLAIM?

You either accept the proposition, or you do not accept the proposition.

I mean if you really read this, it seems like atheism doesn't exist. You're either theist or agnostic.

Rejection means the same thing as not accepting

You're right /u/Marthman. He is the king.

I have already defined [atheist and theist] as the only options to a single claim...

Even his own gumball experiment defeats him. If you don't know if there's even or odd gumballs is obviously reasonable.

I'm okay with withholding belief, I'm saying that that is rejecting the claim.

You are a fucking moron.

Rejecting a claim is not the same as asserting that it is false.

True. This just doesn't make you an atheist.

/u/Marthman, I both love and hate you for introducing me to this. You could say I'm an atheist, because I reject the claim that I hate you but do not adhere to the claim that I love you.