The extent I believe in a real world, that world needs a man and woman for procreation. Why?
Do you mean why does it take a man and a woman to procreate?
Can you narrow that?
but just that physical attributes cannot be entirely deconstructed. Yeah, and physical attributes are meaningless without mental and social components. A penis has no significance without the social application of the constructed category of "male" to it, for example.
How far are you deconstructing?
Do you accept there is a physical world outside of language?
Ha you think its trivial? I don't know what you meant, which is why I asked you to clarify, then said that I might agree with you, but think your point is trivial or I might simply flat out disagree. Given what you're saying, I'm pretty sure that I flat out disagree rather than consider it true, but trivial.
That was just a joke as to say "you think this isn't serious?" To imply that we both take it seriously to an extent after all.
Likewise there are patterns to gender expression consistent to underlying motivations. Such as?
Such as the relationship between childhood gender non conformity and adult homosexuality.
The relationship between homosexuality and biological markers.
I think orientation is and would have to be more than an interest in genitals.
Yes, it's an interest in genders. But our attractions aren't towards genders, but towards individuals.
No that's not what I see in people.
Are you saying that everyone is really pansexual if it wasn't for society?
I can't see that at all. Do you have any evidence of this?
A straight man isn't attracted to some platonic Woman of which individual women are merely participating in the expression of, but in many individual women (and possibly, like, one or two men).
That sounds like fantasy thinking. You are denying people agency. It's not that everyone is honest in their expression but your model denies the reality of so many lives.
Where are you going with this?
Are you saying everyone is gender queer or just the honest realised people?
All non gender conforming people are playing with pre gendered signs. Huh? What are "pre gendered signs"?
Non gender conformity can manifest in signs like hair style.
Short hair = boy, long hair = girl.
A non gender conforming girl therefore will wear short hair.
If there is no pre gender sign there can be no non gender conforming.
Now you might say get rid of gender and you get rid of non conformity.
I would say gender isn't going anywhere and gender non conformity demonstrates that.
Every time I hear that I imagine the most vanilla of boy and girl saying "Sounds fine to me!" and carries on exactly as before.
But the "vanilla of boy and girl" doesn't actually exist.
Well there's a point I would disagree on. As far as I can see the world is full of vanilla. Check the main street in any city in the world.
Indeed, everyone lives constantly acting and being acted upon by gender, so a complete individualization of gender would have to involve the break down of the systems that create within people the ideals of being male or being female which define a lot of what they do allowing them to discover for themselves their own unique identity constructed around their own uniqueness rather than around these abstract constructed categories that we've forced upon everyone.
I really don't think everyone does live like that. That sounds more like someone who is non conforming in some way. Most people are more concerned about living up to the ideal rather than questioning why they need to.
Its the use of that word "unique," that seems like "personality." It seems like a denial of identity.
There are no dykes just "personalities." I find it erasing. I see the good intention but it's always better to argue from a position of truth.
There are patterns being ignored. The majority are gender conforming.
The patterns exist because the patterns are enforced.
Most people don't feel they are enforced at all.
But why break them?
It's like saying there are gay people because they are forced to be gay.
Who's forcing draq queens into high heels?
Who's forcing women to love slash fiction?
Who's making men love to cruise on gaydar all day?
The majority isn't gender conforming because they considered the performance of gender and the structures that create gender for a long time and decided that they like the gender that has been assigned to them by society and they want to conform. Most of them just do it without having seriously considered it at all.
I think that's fundamentally wrong.
The majority don't think about it because they don't feel the problem.
Are you saying if only they considered it more they would be gender non conforming?
Does it come down to that?
I worry you are thing this to make yourself feel better about your own place in society. But really you don't need that. What's more if you think everyone else needs to change, be non gender conforming, for you to be happy then you'll hit problems.